The man is unstable and needs to be medicated. He has lost all connection with reality.
I regret that I have to be so blunt but it's the cold honest truth and somebody has to say it. Advanced Narcissism leads to Sociopathology and Hartley has shown the definitive signs that his pathology has progressed to a dangerous state. Catastrophic consequences are almost certain to follow. I am not joking or speaking in hyperbole. Donald Hartley is unstable and a genuine severe threat to himself and others. His two strokes are proof enough of his inability to control or suppress the rage inside himself caused by his irrational ego. Rather than take the steps to get healthy and examine his own out-of-control pride, Hartley doubles down on his toxic narcissism and dishonesty.
Just look at these symptoms that would be characterized by a person with an irrationally inflated self image:
A need to speak of oneself in the 3rd person to make oneself appear larger than life. For example, a normal person might say "I chose not to debate John Benko because of X", Hartley says "The Catholic Defender will never debate John Benko...". "The Catholic Defender responds to John Benko". Who talks like that? Is this guy 12? He actually imagines himself as a sort of super hero. In reality, his Catholic knowledge is far below par and his ability to make a cogent defense is simply non-existent. He is the classic combination of arrogance and ignorance. Rather than looking like a super hero, he comes off looking like a clown and he is losing all his friends who refuse to deal with his self absorption.
A hysterical need to always be right even to the point of rejecting unimpeachable facts to the contrary. The narcissist will quickly develop a senseless hatred for anyone who has a different opinion regardless of how well founded. Hartley does this relentlessly.
A total inability to accept new information, dismissing even the most credible sources as ''the enemy''.
A complete disregard of the truth and a willingness to lie huge and often if that what it takes to escape a rhetorical trap.
All of these things spring from a psychological device known as projection. Unable to deal with his own deep seeded self loathing, the narcissist projects it onto others.
Violence inevitably follows. That is why those who care for Donald Hartley need to intervene before he reaches that point. Make no mistake, he is on the brink.
It is in that framework of understanding that you must confront my factual responses to his latest tantrum. That Hartley has made this issue his hill to die on seems illogical to anyone but himself.
Hartley actually counts it as a personal assault that anyone even questions the veracity of the alleged events in Medjugorje. This creates an instant conflict because, after a careful examination of the facts, a person would have to be criminally insane to believe in the fraud that is Medjugorje. That is why most Catholics, easily more than 90% of them, don't.
That is where to true ugliness of a narcissist like Hartley comes through because he cannot defend his position with facts and will resort to any other means he deems necessary.
Ad hominem attacks
Slander
False and fallacious arguments.
outright lies.
censorship.
Appeals to authority
Make no mistake, Hartley cannot hold his own on this subject so he resorts to the tactics of the tantrum and flees from an honest scholarly debate as quickly as he can. He is much less "catholic defender" and much more school yard bully.
Let's walk through his latest diatribe and contrast his approach. In his words to follow, you will see:
Lying
Name calling and emotional outbursts
Specious arguments
Dubious sources
Leaps of logic.
With mine, you will see:
100% verifiable truth and accuracy.
Surgical deconstruction of his claims.
Sound, cogent and impenetrable arguments.
Credible and documented sources.
Perfect logic.
ARGUMENT #1 (my words in red, his response in blue)
"The truth is that Hartley, and people like him, can only lie and assert that Medjugorje was supported by Holy men that are now gone and can't defend themselves, because you would be hard pressed to find any priest today who believes in Medjugorje. It has become a fringe movement that all but a handful of Catholics have rightfully rejected." Wow, Benko is so wrong, but he can say what he wants of in his kingdom, obviously truth does not matter in his reporting.
Notice the irrational hyperbole and exaggerated language? "his kingdom" "truth does not matter" "Wow, Benko is so wrong".
What you won't see from Hartley is verifiable evidence and facts. He can't provide them The facts are not on his side.
It is a fact that Medjugorje supporters in 2023 are a fraction of what they were before. Medjugorje conferences that used to fill up stadiums, do not exist now. South Bend, Indiana was one example given by noted historian Dr. E Michael Jones. You won't find Medjugorje materials in any Catholic church or bookstore and you won't find 1 priest in a hundred that supports this farce.
I will give just one source. The Total Croatia News reported:
It sounds impossible, but it is true: 36 years after Međugorje in Bosnia and Herzegovina became a global pilgrimage destination, which was visited on average by about a million Catholics (and others) a year, there has been a noticeable drop in the number of visitors, primarily those coming from Italy, reports Slobodna Dalmacija on February 21, 2017.
Italians were among the first who started coming to the location of alleged apparitions and they were the most numerous visitors for years. But now their numbers have been more than halved. Gianni Mauro, the owner of the Mauro travel agency, announced in the Italian media that he would close his business, which was dependent on Italian pilgrims. Mauro says that every year more than 200,000 pilgrims from Italy used to come to Međugorje, but by the summer of 2016 that number decreased to only about 50 people per ferry coming from Italy.
People are waking up by the millions and rejecting this Demonic charade.
ARGUMENT #2
John Benko is wanting to challenge to St. Pope John Paul II and his Vatican Exorcist Father Amorth. He simply denies what they are themselves quoted to have stated. It was seen on video and is rather difficult to take the Benko clan's position, they have to make up their own facts.
Well, who is the real liar here, you decide? about Pope St. John Paul II 's position on Medjugorje! The John Benko clan.
Let's take this irrational tantrum apart bit by bit.
John Benko is wanting to challenge to St. Pope John Paul II and his Vatican Exorcist Father Amorth.
Actually, I am the one defending these 2 holy men against the slander that Hartley is hurling at them.
He simply denies what they are themselves quoted to have stated.
Notice the shell game here? By denying what "they are themselves quoted to have stated". You see the problem here? He can only demonstrate that they are quoted as saying it. What he cannot do is prove they actually said it. It is hearsay and, as I am about to prove, it is a lie. They never said it. Ever.
This diatribe was in response to a challenge by me to prove these two persons actually said these things. Yet, rather than do so, Hartley simply doubles down on the 3rd and 4th hand gossip he has been pushing all along. No court would admit this type of evidence and neither would any debate moderator. The entire crux of his argument reminds me of a line from a James Taylor song:
Someone said, someone said
Something 'bout, something else
Someone might have said about her
Then, in a desperate attempt to divert attention away from his obviously pathetic argument, he launches into a hopeless ad hom.
It was seen on video and is rather difficult to take the Benko clan's position, they have to make up their own facts.
Well, who is the real liar here, you decide? about Pope St. John Paul II 's position on Medjugorje! The John Benko clan.
The Benko clan? Who is that? Would that include T4P member Terry Delp who had to block Hartley for falsely claiming they were aligned? Would that include Master Apologist and published author William Hemsworth who, like Delp and myself left Hartley over his support of the fraud in Bosnia? Would it include Michael Cibenko, former Catholic school teacher and published author who left for the same reason?
Would it include top tier apologist Ken Litchfield, who like Hemsworth has appeared on Gary Michuta's show and who also rejects the Medjugorje fraud? Would it include top tier apologist Luke Haskell who also rejects Medjugorje?
How about Licensed Clinical Catholic therapists Deb Rojas and Dr. Fred Boley who also reject the Medjugorje hoax? Jack Gist and the group at Catholicism Rocks, part of the clan too? Luis Ogando, Chantal Reigns, and Cherry Mallorca too?
None of these people have done anything against Hartley or said anything negative about him. Nothing. Yet, he equates them with the klan? Seriously?
For Donald Hartley, the only unforgivable sin is disagreeing with him. Everyone of those people disagrees with him on Medjugorje. Why? Because it's false and anyone with 3 firing brain cells can see that. Hartley hates anyone who doesn't bow down to his god complex. The truth is, he is a coward who just isn't man enough to accept correction when he is wrong.
So what can we say about this video that Hartley purports as such strong evidence? I will say what I always do- the facts:
Hartley gives no information as to the creators or distributers of the video. Absolutely nothing that can establish (or refute) the authenticity of their claims. This fact alone makes the video inadmissible as evidence under any standard. His entire case rests on an anonymous source making a dubious claim that literally counters all of the other evidence of JP II's entire 25 year papacy. However, just for the sake of argument, even if the source is good, the claims in the video still are inadmissible because.....
The evidence is not first hand. In fact, it is 4th hand which makes it nothing more than hearsay. The narrator (who we cannot identify, much less cross examine) refers to an article he provides no link to. Thus, we cannot examine the article or investigate it's veracity, sources etc.
The alleged article links us to yet another person we do not have the opportunity to cross examine- Bishop Pavol Hnilica, who died in 2006. We will get to him in a moment. The Bishop recounts an alleged conversation with then Pope John Paul II which, again, we have no access to.
So, let's review. Rather than produce a video, or anything at all, showing direct evidence that JP II ever supported Medjugorje in his entire 25 year papacy, Don has nothing but a narrator claiming that an article quoted a Bishop as saying he spoke to Pope Saint John Paul II. If Hartley thinks any reasonable person would accept that as evidence, he is more insane than I thought and that boggles the mind.
However, just to remove any doubt that Donnie and his ilk are lying, let's play along just for fun. So, for the sake of argument, we are going to assume:
The video source that we cannot identify, is credible.
The narrator is accurately quoting an actual article and....
The article is accurately quoting the Bishop.
In this case, the entire question of whether JP II ever supported Medjugorje in any way, comes down to the credibility of this one Bishop.
Was he credible?
About as credible as Don Hartley
which is to say not at all.
Bishop Pavol Hnilca was a central figure in trying to promote the condemned apparitions of Our Lady of All Nations which were thunderously condemned by the Vatican. Despite a grave warning from the Vatican not to promote this fraud, Donnie Hartley and his heretic partner John Carpenter still are.
As for Medjugorje, this is from the Wikipedia article on Bishop Hnilca:
Hnilica was a member of the "Queen of Peace" Committee, along with other supporters of the Medjugorje apparitions: Msgr. Dr. Frane Franić, retired Archbishop of Split and Makarska, Father Tomislav Pervan, Father Ivan Landeka, Father Slavko Barbarić, Father Jozo Zovko and Father Leonard Oreč.[18]
Chris Maunder believes that Hnilica's support for Medjugorje was a burden because of his involvement with the Vatican Bank scandal from the 1980s of which he was acquitted.[16]
It was correctly stated by Kutleša that in March 1994, while in Mostar, Hnilica falsely presented himself as the Pope's personal delegate[19][citation needed] and attributed statements to Pope John Paul II supportive of Medjugorje, which were dismissed as false by the Vatican.[20][citation needed]
So even the Vatican has publicly confirmed that Hnilca's claims were lies. Of course, that won't stop Donnie from continuing to repeat them because he has a long history of rejecting the authority of the church.
There is more.
Hnilca was found guilty in the Vatican banking scandal and sentenced to 3 years in prison. His sentence was later overturned on a technicality. Donnie relies on the lies of a criminal to support Medjugorje. The credibility of the star witness giving the only flimsy evidence Hartley has, is non existent. Just like Hartley's credibility is non existent and his apostolate is followed by exactly no one.
As for the book, Hnilca claimed JP II was reading from (another obvious lie), it was written by Father Rene Laurentin. He also has no credibility. He actually changed one of the Gospa's messages from "disbelieving Judases" to doubting Thomas's. Changing Mary's words? Seriously?
Once considered an authority, Father Laurentin's word has lost all credibility.
Father Jozo Zovko, another Hnlica associate has been defrocked and excommunicated.
Donald Hartley is out of his mind if he thinks anyone would take seriously any of the claims made in this video. It is utterly refuted click bait.
Here is where it gets really funny though. It was a stupid line or argumentation anyway. John Paul II never supported Medjugorje. Not once. That's a fact.
However, Donnie didn't want to tackle the real gotcha point. For even if it were not a lie that JP II privately supported Medjugorje (and it obviously is a lie), even lying Donnie heretic cannot claim he or Benedict XVI or Francis ever publicly supported it or contested the any of the 4 negative judgements. That is the only kind of support that would matter.
Donnie has literally hitched his whole case to an argument that would mean absolutely nothing even if it were true which it clearly isn't.
ARGUMENT #3
Father Amorth’s other great battle can be considered the recognition of the Medjugorje apparitions. The first journey of the priest in the place of Marian worship took place in 1981 and already in that case he was fully convinced of what we saw. In fact, in a secret notebook, the exorcist wrote:“The children [seers] are sincere.” In the presence of the Madonna he believed blindly and “with all of himself,” convinced that the Bosnian visionaries and pilgrims were the Madonna’s army against the evil one.
Can you believe this clown?
We are supposed to dismiss the condemnation of 22 Bishops of Jurisdiction who have condemned this demonic farce because Hartley claims Amorth wrote something in a secret notebook. Once again, Hartley just has to produce the notebook. He can't because there is no secret notebook. It's in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow covered by Jack's Beanstalk beans.
As incredible as this slander is, the point I made above is clear. Obviously, Amorth had no secret notebook any more than the 6 liars have been given secrets by The Gospa but even if he did have it and he did write what Hartley alleges, it still means nothing.
Nothing.
The Bishops have the authority. They have spoken. Medjugorje is condemned.
Period.
Hartley simply isn't man enough to accept that Medjugorje is settled and that he was duped by 6 lying hucksters who are laughing at him from their mansions.
and Hartley cannot understand why literally no one except me reads his blog or listens to his shows and the only reason I do is out of a morbid curiosity to say just how unhinged this insane clown will be this week.
Case in point. Just look at him lie here. My words in Blue, his in Red
"The claims are that certain persons have knowledge of other persons who conducted/found interviews, diaries and letters in which these two Catholic luminaries secretly expressed support for Medjugorje. The claims are beyond credible. One of the claims is that Bishop Amorth is alleged to have said that disbelief in Medjugorje is unforgivable. Speaking bluntly, anyone who believes that is almost too ignorant to even converse with. Anyone that knows even basic Catholic theology knows that belief in any private revelation, even one like Fatima or Lourdes, is not required. "
Wow, Benko says that Father Amorth is "almost too ignorant to even converse with"
If hellbound Hartley was actually a Christian, he'd know not to bear false witness. Any 8 year old can read that passage and see that I am the one defending Bishop Amorth against the false witness Hartley is slandering him with. It takes a real SOB to slander a deceased Bishop, Our Lady, Our Lord and me all at the same time but this fraction of a man, Hartley does it. The facts are clear. This good Bishop never said that not believing in Medjugorje is unforgivable and anyone stupid enough to believe he did say it is too stupid to talk to. Even Hartley isn't that stupid. He is just evil. Hartley deliberately twisted my words because that is just how evil he is. The demon of Medjugorje has full possession of him.
ARGUMENT #4
Actually, this war began with John Benko. I had suffered from a stroke and was not able to participate on radio or the blog for several months. I began receiving calls from people who were upset that John Benko had been attacking them. They also informed me of his attacking of me. When I was finally able to get activated, I began to see what Benko had been doing. I then set out to defend myself. Anyone looking through this blog can see that it is Benko who is wrong. and continues to be wrong on his webpage and radio. I refused to debate Benko because he does not deserve such a debate, he sent perverted messages to my wife, Benko is not a Christian
Hartley had his stroke on Christmas Eve. Him and his sidekick began 2 solid months of Medjugorje shows in SEPTEMBER. Hartley started the fight by blaspheming Our Blessed Lady and attacking me for 4 solid months before his stroke. Only a truly perverse individual like Hartley would use his own stroke as an opportunity to cover his own mortal sins and play the victim. His lie about me sending messages to his wife is just another example. It never happened, not once. He made it up like all his other lies.
Hartley refused to debate me because he knew all the facts are on my side and I'd kick his ass.
Like I just did here.
The facts still stand. Medjugorje has produced:
No miracles
No cures
No fulfilled prophecies
No Verified Medical tests
No conversions
It has produced broken marriages, defrocked priests, filthy rich hacks posing as seers and a massive rise in the occult. That is why it is condemned by the Catholic Church and always will be. Look in any Catholic bookstore and you won't find one book on Medjugorje. You won't find 1 priest in 1000 that supports this crock either.
Finally, in the only number that really counts, Bishops of Jurisdiction have condemned it 22-0.
The facts are all on my side. Sadly, Hartley will likely have a 3rd stroke before he will grow up, be a man and admit he is wrong.
